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Copyright
© Bhaktivedanta Manor 2003
UK Headquarters of the International
Society for Krishna Consciousness
Founder-Acarya His Divine Grace A.C.
Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
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Chanting
for Liberation
A
conversation about the Hare Krishna mantra
between Shrila Prabhupada and John
Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison, Montreal Star, June, 1969:
Reporter:
Where do you get your strength?
John Lennon: From Hare Krishna.
Yoko: That's where we get it from, you know. We're not denying it.
In September 1969. A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, founder-acharya (spiritual
master) of the Hare Krishna movement, arrived as a house guest at Tittenhurst
Park, the beautiful eighty-acre British estate owned by John Lennon. Three or
four times a week, the Swami, who later became known to the world as Shrila Prabhupada,
gave public lectures in a tall, stately building at the northern end of the property
a hundred yards from the main house, in which John and Yoko lived.
The building
had been formerly used as a hall for chamber-music recitals, but now several of
Shrila Prabhupada's disciples, who resided along with him in a block of guest
houses on the property, installed a small Deity altar and a podium for Shrila
Prabhupada. The building never really had a name, but after Shrila Prabhupada's
arrival, everyone called it "the Temple."
They still call it "the
Temple" today, and except for the recent addition of an enormous crimson-and-gold
pipe organ nearly covering the towering west wall, it exists unchanged, now surrounded
by a recording-studio complex owned by Ringo Starr.
On September 14, John,
Yoko, and George Harrison, after enjoying an Indian vegetarian meal prepared by
the devotees at the Temple, walked over to Shrila Prabhupada's quarters for their
first meeting.
Which Mantra to Chant
Yoko
Ono: If Hare Krishna is such a strong, powerful mantra, is there any reason
to chant anything else? For instance, you talked about songs and different mantras.
Is there any point in the chanting of another song or mantra?
Shrila Prabhupada:
There are other mantras, but the Hare Krishna mantra is especially recommended
for this age. But other Vedic mantras are also chanted. As I told you, the sages
would sit with musical instruments, like the tamboura, and chant them. For instance,
Narada Muni* is always chanting mantras and playing his stringed instrument, the
vina. So chanting out loud, with musical instruments, is not a new thing. It's
been done since time immemorial. But the chanting of the Hare Krishna mantra is
especially recommended for this age. This is stated in many Vedic literatures,
such as the Brahmanda Purana, the Kalisantarana Upanishad, the Agni Purana. and
so forth. And apart from the statements of the Vedic literature, Lord Krishna
Himself, in the form of Lord Caitanya, preached that everyone should chant the
Hare Krishna mantra. And many people followed Him. When a scientist discovers
something, it becomes public property. People may take advantage of it. Similarly,
if a mantra has potency, all people should be able to take advantage of it. Why
should it remain secret? If a mantra is valuable, it is valuable for everybody.
Why should it be for only a particular person?
John Lennon: If all
mantras are just the name of God, then whether it's a secret mantra or an open
mantra it's all the name of God. So it doesn't really make much difference, does
it, which one you sing?
Shrila Prabhupada: It does make a difference.
For instance, in a drug shop they sell all types of medicines for curing different
diseases. But still you have to get a doctor's prescription in order to get a
particular type of medicine. Otherwise, the druggist won't supply you. You might
go to the drug shop and say, "l'm diseased. Please give me any medicine you
have." But the druggist will ask you, "Where is your prescription?"
Similarly, in this age of Kali* the Hare Krishna mantra is prescribed in the shastras,
or scriptures. And the great teacher Caitanya Mahaprabhu, whom we consider to
be an incarnation of God, also prescribed it. Therefore, our principle is that
everyone should follow the prescription of the great authorities. Mahajano yena
gata sa pantha. We should follow in the footsteps of the great authorities. That
is our business. The Mahabharata states, "Dry arguments are inconclusive.
A great personality whose opinion does not differ from others is not considered
a great sage. Simply by studying the Vedas, which are variegated, one cannot come
to the right path by which religious principles are understood. The solid truth
of religious principles is hidden in the heart of an unadulterated, self-realized
person. Consequently, as the sastras affirm, one should accept whatever progressive
path the mahajanas advocate." [Mahabharata, Vana-parva, 313.117] This Vedic
mantra says that if you simply try to argue and approach the Absolute Truth, it
is very difficult. By argument and reason it is very difficult, because our arguments
and reason are limited. And our senses are imperfect. There are many confusing
varieties of scriptures, and every philosopher has a different opinion, and unless
a philosopher defeats other philosophers, he cannot become recognized as a big
philosopher. One theory replaces another, and therefore philosophical speculation
will not help us arrive at the Absolute Truth. The Absolute Truth is very secret.
So how can one achieve such a secret thing? You simply follow the great personalities
who have already achieved success. So our Krishna consciousness philosophical
method is to follow the great personalities, such as Lord Krishna, Lord Caitanya,
and the great spiritual masters in disciplic succession. Take shelter of bona
fide authorities and follow them-that is recommended in the Vedas. That will take
you to the ultimate goal.
You Can't Manufacture a Mantra
Evam
parampara-praptam: In this way, by disciplic succession, the knowledge is coming
down. Sa kaleneha mahata yogo nashtha parantapa: But in the course of time the
succession was broken. Therefore, Krishna says, I am speaking it to you again.
So a mantra should be received from the disciplic succession. The Vedic injunction
is sampradaya-vihina ye mantras te nishphala matah. If your mantra does not come
through the disciplic succession, it will not be effective. Mantras te nishphala.
Nishphala means that it will not produce the desired result. So the mantra must
be received through the proper channel, or it will not act. A mantra cannot be
manufactured. It must come from the original Supreme Absolute, coming down through
the channel of disciplic succession. It has to be received in that way, and only
then will it act.
According to our Krishna consciousness philosophy, the mantra
is coming down through four channels of disciplic succession: one through Lord
Siva, one through the goddess Lakshmi, one through Lord Brahma, and one through
the four Kumaras. The same thing comes down through different channels. These
are called the four sampradayas, or disciplic successions. So, one has to take
his mantra from one of these four sampradayas; then only is that mantra active.
If we receive the mantra in that way, it will be effective. And if one does not
receive his mantra through one of these sampradaya channels, then it will not
act; it will not give fruit.
Yoko Ono: If the mantra itself has such
power, does it matter where you receive it, where you take it?
Shrila Prabhupada:
Yes, it does matter. For instance, milk is nutritious. That's a fact; everyone
knows. But if milk is touched by the lips of a serpent, it is no longer nutritious.
It becomes poisonous.
Yoko Ono: Well, milk is material.
Shrila
Prabhupada: Yes, it is material. But since you are trying to understand spiritual
topics through your material senses, we have to give material examples.
Yoko
Ono: Well, no, I don't think you have to give me the material sense. I mean,
the mantra is not material. It should be something spiritual; therefore, I don't
think anybody should be able to spoil it. I wonder if anybody can actually spoil
something that isn't material.
Shrila Prabhupada: But if you don't
receive the mantra through the proper channel, it may not really be spiritual.
John Lennon: How would you know, anyway? How are you able to tell? I mean,
for any of your disciples or us or anybody else who goes to any spiritual master
how are we to tell if he's for real or not?
Shrila Prabhupada: You
shouldn't go to just any spiritual master.
Who's a Genuine Guru?
John
Lennon: Yes, we should go to a true master. But how are we to tell one from
the other?
Shrila Prabhupada: It is not that you can go to just any
spiritual master. He must be a member of a recognized sampradaya, a particular
line of disciplic succession.
John Lennon: But what if one of these
masters who's not in the line says exactly the same thing as one who is? What
if he says his mantra is coming from the Vedas and he seems to speak with as much
authority as you? He could probably be right. It's confusing like having too many
fruits on a plate.
Shrila Prabhupada: If the mantra is actually coming
through a bona fide disciplic succession, then it will have potency.
John
Lennon: But the Hare Krishna mantra is the best one?
Shrila Prabhupada:
Yes.
Yoko Ono: Well, if Hare Krishna is the best one, why should we
bother to say anything else other than Hare Krishna?
Shrila Prabhupada:
It's true, you don't have to bother with anything else. We say that the Hare Krishna
mantra is sufficient for one's perfection, for liberation.
George Harrison:
Isn't it like flowers? Somebody may prefer roses, and somebody may like carnations
better. Isn't it really a matter for the individual devotee to decide? One person
may find that Hare Krishna is more beneficial to his spiritual progress, and yet
another person may find that some other mantra may be more beneficial for himself.
Isn't it just a matter of taste, like choosing a flower? They're all flowers,
but some people may like one better than another.
Shrila Prabhupada:
But still there is a distinction. A fragrant rose is considered better than a
flower without any scent.
Yoko Ono: In that case, I can't
Shrila
Prabhupada: Let's try to understand this flower example.
Yoko Ono:
O.K.
Shrila Prabhupada: You may be attracted by one flower, and I may
be attracted by another flower. But among the flowers a distinction can be made.
There are many flowers that have no fragrance and many that have fragrance.
Yoko Ono: Is that flower that has fragrance better?
Shrila Prabhupada:
Yes. Therefore, your attraction for a particular flower is not the solution to
the question of which is actually better. In the same way, personal attraction
is not the solution to choosing the best spiritual process. In Bhagavad-gita [4.11],
Lord Krishna says, "All of them-as they surrender unto Me-I reward accordingly.
Everyone follows My path in all respects, O son of Pritha." Krishna is the
Supreme Absolute. If someone wants to enjoy a particular relationship with Him,
Krishna presents Himself in that way. It's just like the flower example. You may
want a yellow flower, and that flower may not have any fragrance. That flower
is there; it's for you, that's all. But if someone wants a rose, Krishna gives
him a rose. You both get the flower of your choice, but when you make a comparative
study of which is better, the rose will be considered better.
Yoko Ono:
I see a pattern in what you've said. For instance, you said that Hare Krishna
is the most superpowerful word. And if that is true, then why do we bother to
utter any other words? I mean, is it necessary? And why do you encourage us, saying
that we're songwriters and all, to write any other song than Hare Krishna?
Shrila Prabhupada: Chanting the Hare Krishna mantra is the recommended
process for cleaning our hearts. So actually one who chants Hare Krishna regularly
doesn't have to do anything else. He is already in the correct position. He doesn't
have to read any books.
Yoko Ono: Yes, I agree. So why do you say that
it's all right to write songs, speak, and all that? It's a waste of time, isn't
it?
Shrila Prabhupada: No, it's not a waste of time. For instance,
Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu would spend most of His time simply chanting. He was a
sannyasi, a member of the renounced spiritual order of life. So, He was criticized
by great sannyasis, who said, "You have become a sannyasi, and yet You do
not read the Vedanta-sutra. You are simply chanting and dancing." In this
way, they criticized His constant chanting of Hare Krishna. But when Caitanya
Mahaprabhu met such stalwart scholars, He did not remain silent. He established
the chanting of Hare Krishna by sound arguments based on the Vedic scriptures.
Chanting for Liberation
Chanting Hare Krishna is sufficient for liberation; there is no doubt about it. But if someone wants to understand the Hare Krishna mantra through philosophy, through study, through Vedanta, then we do not lack information. We have many books. But it is not that the Hare Krishna mantra is somehow insufficient and therefore we are recommending books. The Hare Krishna mantra is sufficient. But when Caitanya Mahaprabhu was chanting, He sometimes had to meet opposing scholars, such as Prakashananda Sarasvati and Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya. And then He was ready to argue with them on the basis of Vedanta. So, we should not be dumb. If someone comes to argue with Vedanta philosophy, then we must be prepared. When we are preaching, many different types of people will come with questions. We should be able to answer them. Otherwise, the Hare Krishna mantra is sufficient. It does not require any education, any reading, or anything else. Simply by chanting Hare Krishna, you get the highest perfection. That's a fact.
| READ AND LISTEN TO CONVERSATIONS WITH GEORGE HARRISSON: The Hare Krishna mantra Experiencing God Through the Senses |
Copyright
© Bhaktivedanta Manor 2003
UK Headquarters of the International
Society for Krishna Consciousness
Founder-Acarya His Divine Grace A.C.
Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
back to homepage